Comments on: About the IB program and more

By: Felix

Felix — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:23:25 +0000

So what is the status of these programs ? Seems everybody had a opinion when they were asking for our vote

By: llgem

llgem — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:50:43 +0000

Observer, I am sorry if you felt I implied that schools that take AP are only community colleges. That was not what I meant at all nor do I feel this way. The analogy that I was saying was taking one or two AP classes would be similar to taking one or two college classes where taking an IB diploma program would be similar to taking a full degree program. I am not saying students need IB to get into a top tier school, I know that is not the case. However the two programs are not the same and should not be looked at as two programs that do the same thing. They should each be looked at on there own merits.

By: uffdacyd

uffdacyd — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:31:32 +0000

If you want to find out about the IB program and what students feel – check out the December addition of “The Gambit” – the Aurora High School newspaper. There is an excellent editorial on the merit of IB and what should happen should the levy fail again. Their take – the program costs far too much to continue if the levy goes down. They broke it down financially – not just the $100,000 it costs to run the program, but also brought out the number of classrooms that are unavailable for other classes, the teachers who are not able to teach more classes because of the prep time that is required for IB, and the cost of training the teachers. The editorial was well researched and well written and something that everyone should read.

By: Observer

Observer — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:26:48 +0000

I graduated from the Shaker School system, back when it was one of the finest districts in the state. Many of my fellow classmates got into Ivy League-level schools (Harvard, Yale, Brown, MIT, among others) based on AP scores. Even though Shaker is not at the level that it once was, there are still many students getting into these schools, and Shaker still only offers AP. I realy don’t think that not having IB will reduce any student’s chances of getting into the top tier level of schools. AP is still the standard that most schools recognize. If money was not an issue, we would keep both programs. But, the reality is, money is an issue. With AP, I was able to earn over 20 hours of college credit at Miami University, whiich I don’t believe is a community college as implied by llgem above.

By: llgem

llgem — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:13:51 +0000

There is a significant difference between IB and AP. The IB program is a diploma program, which means these students commit to a rigorous course load across the board, not just one or two challenging courses. That is why there are not a lot of students in these classes, not many students want to take on a challenge of this magnitude. However for the students who do take on this challenge, it says something about their commitment to education to colleges and does translate to scholarships and college credit. The difference between IB and AP would be analagous to taking a few course at a community college and getting a four year degree. Yes they both are college level material, but there is a major difference in the education and commitment level of the students. Although 100,000 dollars is a lot of money, it is not much when compared with other items on the budget. In my opinion, it would be a shame to end a program that serves our brightest and most committed students. What are we saying then about our commitment to education. Not everything we do in education has to be for a result that can be caculated (such as how much college credit is given to these students). When a person learns that knowledge can never be taken away from them. That is a benefit these students are getting that cannot be quantified, yet is priceless. Let’s not always sacrifice the brightest students among us for the budget without looking at other possible cuts. Hopefully these students are our future leaders and problem solvers.

By: Concerned Parent

Concerned Parent — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 02:25:16 +0000

To sbpar:

It’s not just upper tier schools that are important rather it’s how many high level programs do these students get admitted to? That number is very high and there is significant scholarship money landed by these students. That said the list would be interesting and I know this list list exists. These metrics are tracked by the district and used as sucess stories.

Not all schools accept just 6 and 7’s. Its just like the AP program in that regard. Colleges normally do not accept AP scores below a certain threashold either.

By: sbpaur

sbpaur — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:14:34 +0000

To Olive:

“I just went to the IB website http;//www.ibo.org and it looks like many, many schools do recognize grades of 6â€™s or 7â€™s.”

What scores did the kids in the Aurora program get? Unless they all got 6’s and 7’s and they all attended upper tier schools the program is a waste.

Anyone got a list of the schools that all the IB graduates have gone on to attend? I’d be very interested to know how many are actually attending upper tier schools.

By: resident

resident — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:30:58 +0000

From another board:
I still hope so
by momofonekid, 12/18/07 18:10 ET
Re: Aurora school levy/bond issue by Oldmomma, 12/18/07
For the record oldmomma, my child was tested and grade skipped and bored to death even then. There is no real gifted program in the very low grade (Leighton). Of course you would feel differently if your child benefits from no child left behind but for those on the high end of the IQ testing it is sad. Unfortunately it is the children that are predestined for excellence that they are letting down. Until they can serve all of our children we shouldn’t have to pay even more.
I still hope so
by momofonekid, 12/18/07 18:10 ET
Re: Aurora school levy/bond issue by Oldmomma, 12/18/07
For the record oldmomma, my child was tested and grade skipped and bored to death even then. There is no real gifted program in the very low grade (Leighton). Of course you would feel differently if child benefits from no child left behind but for those on the high end of the IQ testing it is sad. Unfortunately it is the children that are predestined for excellence that they are letting down. Until they can serve all of our children we shouldn’t have to pay even more.

I really question the cost of this program 100K, what dioes that include?
The cost of all the leave and sub time for the “training” over time for all the different teachers or jus a pro-rata cost per class taught at 1-5 students per class?
Waste of money??
The levey should not have been the trigger for looking at spending the money, we should get our heads out of the sand and make sure the money we send is spent properly

By: Concerned Parent

Concerned Parent — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:30:52 +0000

I have a child in the IB program who is a senior this year. I can tell you that my child has received scholarship offers from several schools and has been quickly accepted at multiple highly respected universities. Each of the universities my child applied at knew of and highly valued the IB program. These schools are not Ivy League but are the likes of Kent, CSU, Ohio State, MIT, Ohio Northern and The University of Washington.

In my honest opinion, if your child is on the ball in school AP is not enough to challenge them. IB is a great program and though itâ€™s not for everyone it is an important part of the school’s academic program. The program is different from AP in that it encourages critical thinking within a complete scholastic program. AP is a group of single discrete classes that are not programmed together.

Think about this – the district may save 100k against a shortfall of over 850k this year with the elimination of this program. This shortfall didnâ€™t get created by the IB program. In addition the Board of Education has failed miserably at letting the voters know what the impact of a levy failure would be. Further, next year without the passage of the levy, the shortfall will be greater.

Since the need for the levy is inevitable as is the growth of the system does it make sense to cut one of the programs that make Aurora a standout district? If the district cuts the IB program to save 100k we might only need to pass a 5.9 mill levy instead of 6.0. Does that really make sense? Here is a hint â€“ school districts are never recognized for having the best football or sports teams. I am not saying to cut those programs first but the priority is wrong here. We should not be cutting academic or vocational programs first. These should actually be cut last.

Hey – if they cut the IB program life will go on (my children will likely load up on AP classes) but focusing on this program is not the answer to the district’s financial situation.

By: olive

olive — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:30:31 +0000

I just went to the IB website http;//www.ibo.org and it looks like many, many schools do recognize grades of 6’s or 7’s.

If you apply to Kent, Bowling Green or Cleveland State they might not know much about the IB program but schools like Stanford, Notre Dame, UM, Princeton and Harvard do.

I really don’t know much about the program, what i do know is this the smartest kids in Aurora don’t get challenged enough.

Does anyone have any actual experience with the program? Something other than opinion or anecdotal?

Again, voting against the levy because of IB is stupid!

By: SBPAUR

SBPAUR — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 13:57:07 +0000

Having both IB and AP is redundant at best and a complete waste at worst. Of the kids I know who went through IB none of them would do it again. They saw it as a waste of their time since it’s not even on the radar of major universities and some actually had to justify what it was to the schools they’d applied to.

IB is a failed experiment that needs to be terminated.

By: olive

olive — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:15:15 +0000

The Cleveland Hts/ East Cleveland part is true.

Back in the 20’s-30s when East Cleveland had the BEST schools in the state they gerrymandered the district so that new housing in Cleveland Hts would be in the more desirable East Cleveland School District. (This is the northern part of Cleveland Hts around the Forest Hills area.)

In addition, the boundary kept out the Jewish population in Cleveland Hts.

So our next door neighbors were in Cleve. Hts. schools and we were in East Cleve. schools
No lie.

By: ITB

ITB — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:05:24 +0000

I bit too,

At first I thought the “IB” article writer was serious until the last line. Even the part about their old house. They said two bad words. “East Cleveland”.

Anyway, Concernedad is correct. If AP addresses the same core issue, it’s not like that is the only education avenue offered for children in an otherwise lousy school. We have a great school that just happens to offer way more class options than we are used to.

On the other hand. No sports are cut or talked about, no unnecessary staff positions like trainers or astro-turf on the football field is mentioned. Just educational cuts.
I disagree with that and want options on my levy voting.

But then again, if the original writers ideas fly. I want my house listed as “Lite”.

By: Concerned Dad

Concerned Dad — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 14:39:46 +0000

All right, I’ll bite. AP vs IB. Even if money wasn’t an issue, it doesn’t make sense to have two programs that, at their core, do the same thing. Not only are you competing for the same students, you are wasting teacher resources and classroom space for a program for just a handful of students. I don’t fault AHS for giving the IB program a try, but it’s clear after several years that this program is not a good option for Aurora students. I would be curious to see if any follow-up questionaires have been done by the district for students who went through the IB program to ascertain its value. Several parents who I know that have had kids go through the IB programs have told me it was a mistake to let their kids go through that program. This debate really speaks to a larger issue – the curriculum choices of the Aurora schools. I think the administration and especially the Board has made some mistakes regarding the curriculum. The basics of education have been neglected throughout all grades. I was told that not even a basic semester-long economics course is offered by AHS. Athletic programs have been granted way to much attention and money over the years – how many professional athletes (let alone college athletic scholarships) has Aurora produced? Those programs escaped the ax of the first round of budget cuts, but all the clubs for the Harmon and Leighton kids got cut (which collectively didn’t add up to much $$). Most districts spend more money per capita as the kids advance in grade, I imagine Aurora is the same. Why were the younger kids penalized more than the older kids? Similarly, busing changes will affect the younger kids more, how many high school kids ride the bus these days? If the Board wants the levy to pass in March, all of these questions will need to be answered.